Canadian English
Dec. 3rd, 2015 01:19 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
tealinI've got a lot of animation tying-down to do, and while the BBC continues to put out more excellent listening than I can possibly keep up with, I've been finding myself drawn back to the CBC lately as their current events coverage and analysis is the best I've found anywhere. This invariably comes with a tinge of homesickness, but on the other hand I get occasional affirmations of Canadianness, be it in values represented, observations made, or a particular sense of humour. But what really rings my bell is the rhetorical style – it's a subtle differentiation and difficult to explain, because you do get it in other places, but there's a particular Canadian way of saying things that is a certain combination of informal, impersonal, and as strongly worded as possible, sometimes with a tone that belies the words. This kept getting me into trouble at Disney, and in California generally, where people tend to expect a particular decorum*, take everything personally, and take overstatement at face value. I could never quite shake this programming no matter how hard I tried. So it was with a lovely little pang of recognition that I heard the interview between Brent Bambury and his guest Kliph Nesteroff, who he affably introduced as "a comedy nerd," at which Californian Nesteroff characteristically balked. And then on Tuesday's As It Happens, an item introduced via the description of a Trump perfume, transitioned to the meat of the matter with the line "But on this subject, as on literally every other subject, Mr. Trump is wrong." And this leader on Monday's show: "A new study will make you question all you knew about flatworms ... but it won't make you question whether they're gross." See also everything written by Neil Macdonald, especially when he was the US correspondent.
I might be tempted to think these examples only turn up because the CBC knows that, outside Canada's borders (and often inside, too), no one really cares what it says, so it doesn't have to play politics the way the BBC and other major international broadcasters do. But it is reflecting an aspect of culture and conversation style, which holds true for Canadians I know both at home and abroad, and goes back through history – Charlotte Whitton and Silas "I should have pushed him down a crevasse when I had the chance" Wright speak the same language.
People tend to refer to the "backhanded compliment" as a signature Canadian device – something that sounds like a compliment at first but when processed turns out to have a sting in the tail (e.g. "Nice work, it's almost professional" which I got at my first job), but it's part of a larger pattern, I think. A backhanded compliment is a species of Positive Negative – a negative meaning delivered in a positive way – but just as often you get the Negative Positive, a positive message delivered in a negative package. Often the tone of voice, context, or the cultural "given" that meaning is carried on multiple levels, is necessary to grasp the intent of the speaker, which leads to serious and often hurtful misunderstandings if the speaker assumes these values are shared when they are not.
I love Cambridge to pieces and most days can't imagine leaving it without a twinge of panic, but I do wonder sometimes if I'll end up back in Canada eventually anyway ... it seems inevitable, sometimes.
*People tend to think of California, and Californians tend to think of themselves, as very informal, but there is absolutely an expected mode of behaviour in general, and with slight variation for given situations. One is expected to be unambiguously positive, for instance, and while informality is practically a dogma (heaven forbid one decline to be on first-name terms with anyone), one must always protect the self-image of the exalted, something very difficult for an inveterate piss-taker and pretension-pricker ...
I might be tempted to think these examples only turn up because the CBC knows that, outside Canada's borders (and often inside, too), no one really cares what it says, so it doesn't have to play politics the way the BBC and other major international broadcasters do. But it is reflecting an aspect of culture and conversation style, which holds true for Canadians I know both at home and abroad, and goes back through history – Charlotte Whitton and Silas "I should have pushed him down a crevasse when I had the chance" Wright speak the same language.
People tend to refer to the "backhanded compliment" as a signature Canadian device – something that sounds like a compliment at first but when processed turns out to have a sting in the tail (e.g. "Nice work, it's almost professional" which I got at my first job), but it's part of a larger pattern, I think. A backhanded compliment is a species of Positive Negative – a negative meaning delivered in a positive way – but just as often you get the Negative Positive, a positive message delivered in a negative package. Often the tone of voice, context, or the cultural "given" that meaning is carried on multiple levels, is necessary to grasp the intent of the speaker, which leads to serious and often hurtful misunderstandings if the speaker assumes these values are shared when they are not.
I love Cambridge to pieces and most days can't imagine leaving it without a twinge of panic, but I do wonder sometimes if I'll end up back in Canada eventually anyway ... it seems inevitable, sometimes.
*People tend to think of California, and Californians tend to think of themselves, as very informal, but there is absolutely an expected mode of behaviour in general, and with slight variation for given situations. One is expected to be unambiguously positive, for instance, and while informality is practically a dogma (heaven forbid one decline to be on first-name terms with anyone), one must always protect the self-image of the exalted, something very difficult for an inveterate piss-taker and pretension-pricker ...
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Date: 2015-12-03 06:55 pm (UTC)I hadn't realised the positive negative (or negative positive) was a Canadian communication style. I wonder if its a bit of a Scottish thing too because it's definitely a style I've heard from the Scottish side of the family.
It's not really an Australian thing. There's a neutral polite of public broadcast, and a more obvious negative. If anything, obvious is probably our communication style -- we're a country that doesn't entirely trust the smarty-pants. There's cultural value in being one of the everyday people and a bit of a willing oversight/ignorance of class structure even though it exists.
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Date: 2015-12-03 07:09 pm (UTC)It wouldn't surprise me at all if it were a Scottish thing, as Canada seems to be a direct descendant of Scotland even more than England. I never felt more at home abroad than when I visited Scotland.
Interesting about Australia! The US has that suspicion of cleverness as well. I wonder if it comes from a common source or if it's convergent evolution ... or even temperature? It's interesting how intelligence is perceived in different countries with ostensibly common roots. My attempts at wit in the States were generally perceived as hostile, but even amongst typically anti-intellectual, inverted-snob social groups in the UK there's an appreciation of wit, the ability to banter, clever ways to subvert the system, etc. At least as far as I'm aware.
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Date: 2015-12-03 10:01 pm (UTC)Huh. I didn't know that. That's very interesting.
Interesting about Australia! The US has that suspicion of cleverness as well. I wonder if it comes from a common source or if it's convergent evolution ... or even temperature?
Probably. They're both countries with a really strong national identity around being explorers and settlers, using hard work to overcome obstacles and escape control of the hierarchy. (I mean, for the US, it's the Wild West, it's cowboys and the revolutionary war; for us, it's colonial settlers and bushrangers, the national ideal of the "Aussie battler". But they're both nations that value hard work and physical toughness, sheer survival against the odds, rather than intellectually out-thinking the situation or inventing something new.)
My attempts at wit in the States were generally perceived as hostile, but even amongst typically anti-intellectual, inverted-snob social groups in the UK there's an appreciation of wit, the ability to banter, clever ways to subvert the system, etc.
Humour is a tough one. There's a lot of cultural norms hidden in a sense of humour and I even think it translates differently within different areas of the same culture. Then again, I come from a country that does have an occasionally mean sense of humour -- sometimes absurd, but just as frequently it's a little bit of meanness pretending to be a joke -- and the most important part of humour here would be being able to laugh at yourself.
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Date: 2015-12-04 12:31 am (UTC)To be fair, its 12:30am and I've been functioning on too much time at work and not enough time at home in bed.
In other news,
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Date: 2015-12-04 09:57 am (UTC)Yes, I saw!! I don't really know any of the cities you're going to, though, so I can't offer any advice ... I really enjoyed my visit to Quebec City but chances are you will do everything I did and more besides. It – and Montreal – are famously SUPER COLD though, so be prepared!
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Date: 2015-12-04 09:59 am (UTC)P.S. If your downstairs neighbours are still the same people as last summer, the lady is from Montreal, you could chat with her about it... It was such a trip to land in London and hear Québecois French coming from the back garden. :)
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Date: 2015-12-05 01:03 am (UTC)And no, neighbour moved out earlier this year not long after I got back. Now its a new couple with a new baby who's like... 4 months old or something.
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Date: 2015-12-05 10:12 pm (UTC)This is all just me theorizing and is probably sociologically unsound, but I've been trying to figure it out for a while and this is the best I can find for a Theory of Everything ... though it's probably not insignificant also that the US is a society founded on competition and 'The American Dream.' Or the different mixes of immigrant groups. Or the founding of the RCMP. Or, or, or ...
Oh, the 'mean' sense of humour is definitely present in Canada as well, though I don't think it's perceived as 'mean' so much as 'ribbing,' 'joshing,' 'teasing,' etc – you'd never insult someone on the street but you insult your friends all the time, it's like a bonding thing. It's also a way to make sure people don't get too big for their britches, or to take them down a peg if they do (how's that for a mixed metaphor). That also didn't go over well in California ... I do remember talking about the phenomenon with some Californian friends who had been shocked how rude people were in the UK (where this is also a thing, they described it exactly) and they were flabbergasted when I explained it was a sort of test, to see how well you could take it. And of course if you can't take it, you get a lot more of it ...
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Date: 2015-12-06 12:07 pm (UTC)Here it's "stirring" and it might not be perceived as mean but it is. Sounds like the same cultural idea, though.